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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;We Have Met the Enemy and He Is Us.&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://harekrishnawomen.wordpress.com/2008/07/04/we-have-met-the-enemy-and-he-is-us/</link>
	<description>Unveiling the sexism, misogyny, deceptions, fascism, and racism taught by the International Society for Krishna Consciousness</description>
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		<title>By: GM</title>
		<link>http://harekrishnawomen.wordpress.com/2008/07/04/we-have-met-the-enemy-and-he-is-us/#comment-581</link>
		<dc:creator>GM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2008 21:10:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://harekrishnawomen.wordpress.com/?p=44#comment-581</guid>
		<description>Very good article.

The ideas presented in this article are very deep and profound. Even though not needed as this article explains guru concept very nicely, I would like to add my comments.

Basic concept of Gita is that our self is not body but different from material domain and it is beyond body. We offer respects not to body but to paramatma residing in living entities. Similarly, guru&#039;s body and his instituation are material. What matters is that self (atma) and paramatma?

Unfortunately, people are more attached to material aspects like body etc. Prabhupada statues are worshipped in all temples. 

Guru teaches us to go beyond body. But Srila Prabhupada followers are gotten more engrossed in material domain.

There is no different between Krishna&#039;s body and soul. They are same. So, worshipping Krishna is different than worshipping material body of jiva.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very good article.</p>
<p>The ideas presented in this article are very deep and profound. Even though not needed as this article explains guru concept very nicely, I would like to add my comments.</p>
<p>Basic concept of Gita is that our self is not body but different from material domain and it is beyond body. We offer respects not to body but to paramatma residing in living entities. Similarly, guru&#8217;s body and his instituation are material. What matters is that self (atma) and paramatma?</p>
<p>Unfortunately, people are more attached to material aspects like body etc. Prabhupada statues are worshipped in all temples. </p>
<p>Guru teaches us to go beyond body. But Srila Prabhupada followers are gotten more engrossed in material domain.</p>
<p>There is no different between Krishna&#8217;s body and soul. They are same. So, worshipping Krishna is different than worshipping material body of jiva.</p>
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		<title>By: Vrajabhumi</title>
		<link>http://harekrishnawomen.wordpress.com/2008/07/04/we-have-met-the-enemy-and-he-is-us/#comment-428</link>
		<dc:creator>Vrajabhumi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 22:18:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://harekrishnawomen.wordpress.com/?p=44#comment-428</guid>
		<description>Radhapada you wrote

&lt;blockquote&gt;If you ask any faithful ISKCON devotee they will point the finger at the leaders and Gurus because Swami Bhaktivedanta is in a cloud somewhere in the sky aloof from all the mishaps in ISCKON. However, the emphasis of money collections came from the top to the bottom–from Swami Bhaktivedanta to his GBC to the temple leaders. It was not the 11 gurus, the temple presidents, nor the GBC’s who started this. It came from Swami Bhaktivedanta. “By hook or crook, get them to take a book.” If he would have taught his disciples another set of values I am sure things would have been different. There is even an appauling theology that money is Prabhupada’s blood and books are his heart&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Money was needed for Prabhupada&#039;s projects, and he knew that. Money is needed to expand and maintain temples and ashrams, print books, etc. He wasn&#039;t trying to be a mendicant in the sense of renouncing everything and living a simple life. I don&#039;t see anything wrong in that.

But Prabhupada did confer status on people based upon their money making ability - like Ambarish or Atreya Rsi or Guru Krpa or other wealthy followers. In the temples and in the management of ISKCON  the leaders sought status by giving Prabhupada money. In pursuit of that status (aside from personal profit for the enrichment of their bank accounts) they put an extreme emphasis on making money in ISKCON.

The extreme emphasis in the temples on making money e.g  the reading of &quot;Lakshmi points&quot;  (euphemism for dollars or whatever currency of the country the temple was in) every morning during group sadhana, and applauding those who &quot;collected&quot; the most, the worship of and status of devotees in management based upon their ability to bring in money,  the contempt for devotees who weren&#039;t able to make much money, etc, came from the leaders who were in competition with each other for status, and many who were also &quot;skimming the take&quot;. It wasn&#039;t just Prabhupada&#039;s fault that &quot;money was the honey&quot; in ISKCON. His chosen leaders were almost all taking advantage of their positions to make money for themselves and to elevate themselves in the society by giving money to Prabhupada. 

Look at the 11 zonal acaryas that Prabhupada had appointed to represent him. Hansadutta, Kirtanananda, Bhavananda, Ramesvara,  etc. How did they become Prabhupada&#039;s right hand men? Were they more spiritually elevated or better managers then the rest of his disciples? No. They were either close to Prabhupada from the early days or they had distinguished themselves as capable of bringing in money. 

And today it goes on. Although now it isn&#039;t Prabhupada whom devotees are trying to impress in order to gain power, positions, and status, it&#039;s the GBC or gurus or other leaders or wealthy congregational members. You can gain a lot of power and influence in ISKCON if you have the money and the desire and the know-how - regardless of your material or spiritual qualifications.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Radhapada you wrote</p>
<blockquote><p>If you ask any faithful ISKCON devotee they will point the finger at the leaders and Gurus because Swami Bhaktivedanta is in a cloud somewhere in the sky aloof from all the mishaps in ISCKON. However, the emphasis of money collections came from the top to the bottom–from Swami Bhaktivedanta to his GBC to the temple leaders. It was not the 11 gurus, the temple presidents, nor the GBC’s who started this. It came from Swami Bhaktivedanta. “By hook or crook, get them to take a book.” If he would have taught his disciples another set of values I am sure things would have been different. There is even an appauling theology that money is Prabhupada’s blood and books are his heart</p></blockquote>
<p>Money was needed for Prabhupada&#8217;s projects, and he knew that. Money is needed to expand and maintain temples and ashrams, print books, etc. He wasn&#8217;t trying to be a mendicant in the sense of renouncing everything and living a simple life. I don&#8217;t see anything wrong in that.</p>
<p>But Prabhupada did confer status on people based upon their money making ability &#8211; like Ambarish or Atreya Rsi or Guru Krpa or other wealthy followers. In the temples and in the management of ISKCON  the leaders sought status by giving Prabhupada money. In pursuit of that status (aside from personal profit for the enrichment of their bank accounts) they put an extreme emphasis on making money in ISKCON.</p>
<p>The extreme emphasis in the temples on making money e.g  the reading of &#8220;Lakshmi points&#8221;  (euphemism for dollars or whatever currency of the country the temple was in) every morning during group sadhana, and applauding those who &#8220;collected&#8221; the most, the worship of and status of devotees in management based upon their ability to bring in money,  the contempt for devotees who weren&#8217;t able to make much money, etc, came from the leaders who were in competition with each other for status, and many who were also &#8220;skimming the take&#8221;. It wasn&#8217;t just Prabhupada&#8217;s fault that &#8220;money was the honey&#8221; in ISKCON. His chosen leaders were almost all taking advantage of their positions to make money for themselves and to elevate themselves in the society by giving money to Prabhupada. </p>
<p>Look at the 11 zonal acaryas that Prabhupada had appointed to represent him. Hansadutta, Kirtanananda, Bhavananda, Ramesvara,  etc. How did they become Prabhupada&#8217;s right hand men? Were they more spiritually elevated or better managers then the rest of his disciples? No. They were either close to Prabhupada from the early days or they had distinguished themselves as capable of bringing in money. </p>
<p>And today it goes on. Although now it isn&#8217;t Prabhupada whom devotees are trying to impress in order to gain power, positions, and status, it&#8217;s the GBC or gurus or other leaders or wealthy congregational members. You can gain a lot of power and influence in ISKCON if you have the money and the desire and the know-how &#8211; regardless of your material or spiritual qualifications.</p>
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		<title>By: Servant Of Krishna</title>
		<link>http://harekrishnawomen.wordpress.com/2008/07/04/we-have-met-the-enemy-and-he-is-us/#comment-424</link>
		<dc:creator>Servant Of Krishna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 20:53:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://harekrishnawomen.wordpress.com/?p=44#comment-424</guid>
		<description>Radhapada, you state that &quot;From a pyschological perspective, it is extremely hard for many devotees to face up to facts. After many years of building friendships and relationships, winning the trusts, prestige and admiration of many peers and later generations of the ISKCON society it is difficult to recognize the truth and more so to act on it.&quot;

For some insight on this phenomenon, read the excellent essays on this topic by Steven Gelberg: 

http://surrealist.org/betrayalofthespirit/gelberg1.html

http://surrealist.org/betrayalofthespirit/gelbergbrusselspaper.html

Though, sadly, it is not the readers of Vrajabhumi&#039;s blog who need to read these essays, it is the members of ISKCON.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Radhapada, you state that &#8220;From a pyschological perspective, it is extremely hard for many devotees to face up to facts. After many years of building friendships and relationships, winning the trusts, prestige and admiration of many peers and later generations of the ISKCON society it is difficult to recognize the truth and more so to act on it.&#8221;</p>
<p>For some insight on this phenomenon, read the excellent essays on this topic by Steven Gelberg: </p>
<p><a href="http://surrealist.org/betrayalofthespirit/gelberg1.html" rel="nofollow">http://surrealist.org/betrayalofthespirit/gelberg1.html</a></p>
<p><a href="http://surrealist.org/betrayalofthespirit/gelbergbrusselspaper.html" rel="nofollow">http://surrealist.org/betrayalofthespirit/gelbergbrusselspaper.html</a></p>
<p>Though, sadly, it is not the readers of Vrajabhumi&#8217;s blog who need to read these essays, it is the members of ISKCON&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: Radhapada</title>
		<link>http://harekrishnawomen.wordpress.com/2008/07/04/we-have-met-the-enemy-and-he-is-us/#comment-423</link>
		<dc:creator>Radhapada</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 19:42:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://harekrishnawomen.wordpress.com/?p=44#comment-423</guid>
		<description>Govindanandini said,
&quot;Prabhupada came to the “horrible” west because the Indians did not care to listen to him, this much he has said himself.&quot;

His attempts at a the Leage of Devotees miserably failed. He had one initiated disciple there during that period who vanished into oblivion. 

Yes, I agree that the west is not horrible compared to the open sewages, air pollution, oppressive 100 + degree summer weather, poor infrastructure, devasting diseases and poverty in India. 

I think that Swami Bhaktivedanta was very sincere in his endeavors to preach the message of Krishna to the west. He had a humble beginning when he started and had no idea how things were going to take off the way they did. When they did though he began to see himself differently. His ideas and the way he envisioned things became meglomaniac. He told a sannyasi disciple of his that he wanted to be the biggest guru from India. His big projects of big temples, guru kul schools, self sufficient farm communities, big book publications needed lots and lots of money. It consumed him.

I remember when I was in ISKCON that it was not important how much japa you chanted, nor how much you remembered Krishna, but rather in how much money you made for the temple. You would get applauded or had the maha raj bhoga offereing if you made the most money. You were recoginzed as the most advanced devotee if you had feats of bringing a lot of money to the temple. Where do these concepts originate from? Are they the teachings of the Six Goswamis? Absolutely not.

If you ask any faithful ISKCON devotee they will point the finger at the leaders and Gurus because Swami Bhaktivedanta is in a cloud somewhere in the sky aloof from all the mishaps in ISCKON. However, the emphasis of money collections came from the top to the bottom--from Swami Bhaktivedanta to his GBC to the temple leaders. It was not the 11 gurus, the temple presidents, nor the GBC&#039;s who started this. It came from Swami Bhaktivedanta. &quot;By hook or crook, get them to take a book.&quot; If he would have taught his disciples another set of values I am sure things would have been different. There is even an appauling theology that money is Prabhupada&#039;s blood and books are his heart! 

Apologists in ISKCON are in denial these ideas came from him, as they deny that he was prejudice against Blacks and women.

From a pyschological perspective, it is extremely hard for many devotees to face up to facts. After many years of building friendships and relationships, winning the trusts, prestige and admiration of many peers and later generations of the ISKCON society it is difficult to recognize the truth and more so to act on it. Ironic how for many people truth finding stopped in ISCKON. We do not expect senior ISKCON figures as Rukmini and Yamuna to change their position after so many years to now say, &quot;I do not accept what Prabhupada has said on this issue&quot;. There is fear of losing veneration and laud and instead become a scorn. Most would find it unthinkable to be shunned from attending an ISKCON temple and miss out on the spicy subjis floating with ghee and curd, hot puris and melting halava.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Govindanandini said,<br />
&#8220;Prabhupada came to the “horrible” west because the Indians did not care to listen to him, this much he has said himself.&#8221;</p>
<p>His attempts at a the Leage of Devotees miserably failed. He had one initiated disciple there during that period who vanished into oblivion. </p>
<p>Yes, I agree that the west is not horrible compared to the open sewages, air pollution, oppressive 100 + degree summer weather, poor infrastructure, devasting diseases and poverty in India. </p>
<p>I think that Swami Bhaktivedanta was very sincere in his endeavors to preach the message of Krishna to the west. He had a humble beginning when he started and had no idea how things were going to take off the way they did. When they did though he began to see himself differently. His ideas and the way he envisioned things became meglomaniac. He told a sannyasi disciple of his that he wanted to be the biggest guru from India. His big projects of big temples, guru kul schools, self sufficient farm communities, big book publications needed lots and lots of money. It consumed him.</p>
<p>I remember when I was in ISKCON that it was not important how much japa you chanted, nor how much you remembered Krishna, but rather in how much money you made for the temple. You would get applauded or had the maha raj bhoga offereing if you made the most money. You were recoginzed as the most advanced devotee if you had feats of bringing a lot of money to the temple. Where do these concepts originate from? Are they the teachings of the Six Goswamis? Absolutely not.</p>
<p>If you ask any faithful ISKCON devotee they will point the finger at the leaders and Gurus because Swami Bhaktivedanta is in a cloud somewhere in the sky aloof from all the mishaps in ISCKON. However, the emphasis of money collections came from the top to the bottom&#8211;from Swami Bhaktivedanta to his GBC to the temple leaders. It was not the 11 gurus, the temple presidents, nor the GBC&#8217;s who started this. It came from Swami Bhaktivedanta. &#8220;By hook or crook, get them to take a book.&#8221; If he would have taught his disciples another set of values I am sure things would have been different. There is even an appauling theology that money is Prabhupada&#8217;s blood and books are his heart! </p>
<p>Apologists in ISKCON are in denial these ideas came from him, as they deny that he was prejudice against Blacks and women.</p>
<p>From a pyschological perspective, it is extremely hard for many devotees to face up to facts. After many years of building friendships and relationships, winning the trusts, prestige and admiration of many peers and later generations of the ISKCON society it is difficult to recognize the truth and more so to act on it. Ironic how for many people truth finding stopped in ISCKON. We do not expect senior ISKCON figures as Rukmini and Yamuna to change their position after so many years to now say, &#8220;I do not accept what Prabhupada has said on this issue&#8221;. There is fear of losing veneration and laud and instead become a scorn. Most would find it unthinkable to be shunned from attending an ISKCON temple and miss out on the spicy subjis floating with ghee and curd, hot puris and melting halava.</p>
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		<title>By: Govindanandini</title>
		<link>http://harekrishnawomen.wordpress.com/2008/07/04/we-have-met-the-enemy-and-he-is-us/#comment-422</link>
		<dc:creator>Govindanandini</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 16:53:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://harekrishnawomen.wordpress.com/?p=44#comment-422</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Why not look at it this way… here is an old man with so much compassion in his heart that at an advanced age and suffering a few heart attacks while traveling he comes to this horrible west (which after transcendental Vrindavana seems like hell to anyone with higher taste) just to give us something because he feels sorry for us, and doesnt go away after being faced with so many impediments.&lt;/i&gt;


Whats up with this &quot;horrible west&quot; bandwagon, since when the west has become horrible and India its contrasting paradise? The bad things that happen in the west are easily matched by the atrocities that have always happened in India, even in Vrindavan for that matter. In fact, considering the claim of India&#039;s holy, most  sacrosanct land on Earth, its pretty sad to see the large scale and nearly unchecked infringement of human rights going on in that country decade after decade. 

Prabhupada came to the &quot;horrible&quot; west because the Indians did not care to listen to him, this much he has said himself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Why not look at it this way… here is an old man with so much compassion in his heart that at an advanced age and suffering a few heart attacks while traveling he comes to this horrible west (which after transcendental Vrindavana seems like hell to anyone with higher taste) just to give us something because he feels sorry for us, and doesnt go away after being faced with so many impediments.</i></p>
<p>Whats up with this &#8220;horrible west&#8221; bandwagon, since when the west has become horrible and India its contrasting paradise? The bad things that happen in the west are easily matched by the atrocities that have always happened in India, even in Vrindavan for that matter. In fact, considering the claim of India&#8217;s holy, most  sacrosanct land on Earth, its pretty sad to see the large scale and nearly unchecked infringement of human rights going on in that country decade after decade. </p>
<p>Prabhupada came to the &#8220;horrible&#8221; west because the Indians did not care to listen to him, this much he has said himself.</p>
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		<title>By: Sharanagati</title>
		<link>http://harekrishnawomen.wordpress.com/2008/07/04/we-have-met-the-enemy-and-he-is-us/#comment-421</link>
		<dc:creator>Sharanagati</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 14:35:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://harekrishnawomen.wordpress.com/?p=44#comment-421</guid>
		<description>Vrajabhumi, unless you were directly initiated by Srila Prabhupada, I really don&#039;t understand your attachment to him or his institution.

Unless you are his disciple than what does it matter what he ever said or wrote?  

There are so many other gurus and institutions you can join that do not say all these things.

Unless someone has been directly face to face initiated by Prabhupada then I don&#039;t understand why they would care so much.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vrajabhumi, unless you were directly initiated by Srila Prabhupada, I really don&#8217;t understand your attachment to him or his institution.</p>
<p>Unless you are his disciple than what does it matter what he ever said or wrote?  </p>
<p>There are so many other gurus and institutions you can join that do not say all these things.</p>
<p>Unless someone has been directly face to face initiated by Prabhupada then I don&#8217;t understand why they would care so much.</p>
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		<title>By: Vrajabhumi</title>
		<link>http://harekrishnawomen.wordpress.com/2008/07/04/we-have-met-the-enemy-and-he-is-us/#comment-420</link>
		<dc:creator>Vrajabhumi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 19:42:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://harekrishnawomen.wordpress.com/?p=44#comment-420</guid>
		<description>Morning Walk -- July 10, 1975, Chicago
Conversations, 1975
 
His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda


Jayatīrtha: (in car:) It says, &quot;Forgive me if this story is not well-written. I am a woman. My brain weighs less than a man&#039;s, and I am not equal in intelligence.&quot; So she admits. &quot;His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, the seventy-seven year-old founder of the International Society for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness, said so Wednesday. The Society is dedicated to peace in the world through love of God and relinquishment of all things material. The Swami spoke seated cross-legged on an expensive looking cushion surrounded by fresh flowers, microphones and burning incense in a conference room he rented at the Sheraton Chicago Hotel. He is in town for a Kṛṣṇa parade at 1:30 p.m., Saturday down State Street in which he will ride on a flower-bedecked float. He then will fly to Philadelphia for more celebration and philosophical chats. He looked occasionally at his gold watch as he explained his life philosophy. His adoring disciple, five men, knelt at his side. &#039;The MAN,&#039; &quot; capital M-A-N, &quot;he said, &#039;who loves God, controls his sense, is clean inside and out, is simple and tolerant and uses knowledge he has acquired in practical life...&#039; &quot; 

Prabhupāda: Intolerant? 

Jayatīrtha: No, &quot;and tolerant.&quot; &quot; &#039;Such MEN,&#039; &quot; capital M-E-N again, &quot;he said, &#039;are first-class citizens and should be advisors to the world. Second and third-class MEN have not found God and should be administrators and workers.&#039; &quot; Not exactly right. &quot;He spoke thirty minutes and never mentioned women. I asked how women fit into his system. &#039;Women,&#039; he said, &#039;is not equal in intelligence to man. Man&#039;s brain weighs sixty-four ounces; women&#039;s weighs thirty-six ounces. It is just a fact.&#039; He continued, &#039;Women are meant to assist men. That is all.&#039; He said women do not figure in his class system except as daughters or wives. &#039;An unmarried woman presumably is classless. Is that,&#039; asked a male reporter...&quot; 

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) That is fact. She is prostitute, that&#039;s all. If you classify, then she is prostitute. (laughter) That&#039;s all. There is no other way. 

Jayatīrtha: &quot; &#039;Is that,&#039; asked a male reporter, &#039;what is wrong with Mrs. Indira Gandhi?&#039; The Swami hedged.&quot; Then actually they made a mistake. &quot; &#039;I cannot say. I would be arrested.&#039; &quot; That was actually a misquote. (Prabhupāda laughs) 

Brahmānanda: Well, it&#039;s the idea, though. 

Jayatīrtha: Yeah. &quot;The Swami now lives in Los Angeles, and he trains his followers there. Their income is from sales of his books, magazines and incense. He says he has about ten thousand followers. &#039;We do not have so many,&#039; he said...&quot; 

Prabhupāda: The inner meaning is there: &quot;I shall be arrested.&quot; 

Brahmānanda: Yes. (laughs) That shows what is the position. 

Prabhupāda: Yes. 

Jayatīrtha: &quot;He said he has about ten thousand followers.&quot; Quote: &quot; &#039;We do not have so many,&#039; he said, &#039;it is hard to find a first-class man.&#039; &quot; And then she says... 

Prabhupāda: Therefore without first-class man, nobody can become my disciple. 

Jayatīrtha: Then she says, &quot;It&#039;s a pity half the population are women.&quot; 

Prabhupāda: I didn&#039;t say half the population... 

Brahmānanda: That&#039;s her comment. 

Jayatīrtha: That&#039;s what she said. In other words... 

Brahmānanda: Her comment is that if you hadn&#039;t... 

Jayatīrtha: ...that half of the people are disqualified already because they&#039;re women. It&#039;s not so bad. 

Prabhupāda: No, no, it is not bad. It is good. Now our policy should be that at Dallas we shall create first-class men, and we shall teach the girls two things. One thing is how to become chaste and faithful to their husband and how to cook nicely. If these two qualifications they have, I will take guarantee to get for them good husband. I&#039;ll personally... Yes. These two qualifications required. She must learn how to prepare first-class foodstuff, and she must learn how to become chaste and faithful to the husband. Only these two qualification required. Then her life is successful. So try to do that. (Car doors open, walk begins) Ordinary education is sufficient, ABCD. This is all nonsense, so big, big, sound education and later on become a prostitute. What is this education? (laughter) To make them prostitute, it doesn&#039;t require education. [break] Yesterday we saw in the television how these rascals are wasting time, talking nonsense. There was nothing, valuable talk. Foot... No, no, hand... What is that? Handprint? And the addicted murder? That was the case? [break] Within two weeks, two divorces. 

Devotees: Yes. [break] 

Prabhupāda: ...in the Dallas there is no problem. Educate the girls how to become faithful, chaste wife and how to cook nicely. Let them learn varieties of cooking. Is very difficult? These two qualifications, apart from Kṛṣṇa consciousness, materially they should learn. There are many stories, Nala-Damayantī, then Pārvatī, Sītā, five chaste women in the history. They should read their life. And by fifteenth, sixteenth year they should be married. And if they are qualified, it will be not difficult to find out a nice husband. Here the boys, they do not want to marry because they are not very much inclined to marry unchaste wife. They know it, that &quot;I shall marry a girl, she is unchaste.&quot; What do you think? 

Brahmānanda: Yes. 

Prabhupāda: This is psychology. If woman is chaste, even though she is not very beautiful, she will be liked by the husband. So train them in that way: very chaste, faithful wife and knows how to cook very nicely. Other qualification, even they haven&#039;t, that&#039;s all right. And Kṛṣṇa consciousness is being trained up. Then there will be no difficulty. And boys should be first-class man. Then our Gurukula will be successful. What do you think? Am I right? 

Jayatīrtha: Jaya. 

Prabhupāda: Anything objectionable? 

Satsvarūpa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you were saying that in our society the women shouldn&#039;t cook privately for their husbands. 

Prabhupāda: Huh? 

Satsvarūpa: You were saying that everyone should take the Deity&#039;s prasādam. But it sounds like the women are being trained to cook, so... 

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. No, no. The thing is that Deity or at home, she must be very first-class cook. That is wanted. That is according to convenience. If possible, they can take prasādam in the temple. If not possible, they must cook. But she must be first-class cook. That is wanted, either in the temple or outside. In India still, 80%, 90%, they are very happy in their family life, never mind one is poor or rich, because the wife knows these three things: to remain chaste and faithful to the husband, and she knows how to cook nicely. (pause) And women and men should live separately. That is also essential. Butter and fire must be kept apart. Otherwise the butter will melt. You cannot stop it. (pause) The drama was a drug-addicted boy killed some friend? 

Brahmānanda: It was the sailor who was killed? 

Prabhupāda: In that television? 

Jayatīrtha: I came in late. 

Brahmānanda: On the news? 

Prabhupāda: No, no, the television. The lawyers were trying to prove handprints and so many things. The subject matter was that a drug-addicted boy killed a friend. Hm? (pause) What is this, some stool? 

Jayatīrtha: This? It appears to be a leaf of some kind. 

Prabhupāda: Oh, leaf. 

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in a purport in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam you say that even fifty years ago in India the householders had separate apartments for the men and women. 

Prabhupāda: Not apartment, quarter. 

Devotee: Separate quarters in the apartment. And the husband would not see his wife during the day? 

Prabhupāda: No. 

Makhanlal: So is this the standard we should develop in our movement? 

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is good. The example is the butter and fire should be kept separate as far as... Otherwise the butter will melt. Mātrā svasrā duhitrā vā SB 9.19.17 . The butter and..., means man and woman. A man is butter, and woman is fire. So this is restricted even the man happens to be father, brother or son. Mātrā svasrā duhitrā vā. People cannot think of sex impulse in the presence of daughter, mother or sister. But śāstra says &quot;No. There is possibility.&quot; Mātrā svasrā duhitrā vā na vivaktāsane vaset: &quot;They should not be kept, should not sit together.&quot; Then people may say, &quot;This is impossible. Maybe some tenth-class rascal may be attracted.&quot; So the next line says, &quot;No,&quot; vidvāṁśāpi karṣati, &quot;it is not the question of tenth-class rascal; even first-class learned, he may be attracted.&quot; Not to speak of tenth-class rascal, but first-class learned may be. Not may be. It is a... Balavān indriya-grāmo vidvāṁśāpi karṣati: &quot;The senses are so strong that it can mislead even the most learned scholar.&quot; 

Jagadīśa: Lord Brahmā was attracted... 

Prabhupāda: Yes, to his daughter. Just see. There is the example. Lord Śiva was attracted by the Mohinī-mūrti. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that &quot;Even if I see a wooden woman, I become attracted.&quot; (laughs) He is giving this from his..., to teach us that it is possible. So we shall go now? [break] (in car:) ...takes my advice, then I can keep her on the post and she can do greatest, service to India immediately. Immediately whole public will be her support. 

Brahmānanda: What would be your advice to her? 

Prabhupāda: My first step will be to capture all the hoarders and distribute the grains free. Immediately public will be obliged to... There are immense food grains; they are simply hoarded. They are not selling without good price. This is going on. Immediately she can capture the public. And some of the hoarders should be hanged, yes, so that in future nobody will hoard. People are hungry. And she says she has got some program, garivi hatta (?), &quot;Drive away the poverty.&quot; This is the point. If she can supply all consumer goods for the time being free to the poor, then immediately the whole population will be after her. And the hoarders should be exemplary punished. Shoot them, that&#039;s all. Then nobody will hoard. But to remain the dictator she requires spiritual knowledge. Otherwise it will be another disaster. If she wants to remain the dictator, then she must be a spiritual man. She must become a Vaiṣṇavī. (end)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Morning Walk &#8212; July 10, 1975, Chicago<br />
Conversations, 1975</p>
<p>His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda</p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: (in car:) It says, &#8220;Forgive me if this story is not well-written. I am a woman. My brain weighs less than a man&#8217;s, and I am not equal in intelligence.&#8221; So she admits. &#8220;His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, the seventy-seven year-old founder of the International Society for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness, said so Wednesday. The Society is dedicated to peace in the world through love of God and relinquishment of all things material. The Swami spoke seated cross-legged on an expensive looking cushion surrounded by fresh flowers, microphones and burning incense in a conference room he rented at the Sheraton Chicago Hotel. He is in town for a Kṛṣṇa parade at 1:30 p.m., Saturday down State Street in which he will ride on a flower-bedecked float. He then will fly to Philadelphia for more celebration and philosophical chats. He looked occasionally at his gold watch as he explained his life philosophy. His adoring disciple, five men, knelt at his side. &#8216;The MAN,&#8217; &#8221; capital M-A-N, &#8220;he said, &#8216;who loves God, controls his sense, is clean inside and out, is simple and tolerant and uses knowledge he has acquired in practical life&#8230;&#8217; &#8221; </p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Intolerant? </p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: No, &#8220;and tolerant.&#8221; &#8221; &#8216;Such MEN,&#8217; &#8221; capital M-E-N again, &#8220;he said, &#8216;are first-class citizens and should be advisors to the world. Second and third-class MEN have not found God and should be administrators and workers.&#8217; &#8221; Not exactly right. &#8220;He spoke thirty minutes and never mentioned women. I asked how women fit into his system. &#8216;Women,&#8217; he said, &#8216;is not equal in intelligence to man. Man&#8217;s brain weighs sixty-four ounces; women&#8217;s weighs thirty-six ounces. It is just a fact.&#8217; He continued, &#8216;Women are meant to assist men. That is all.&#8217; He said women do not figure in his class system except as daughters or wives. &#8216;An unmarried woman presumably is classless. Is that,&#8217; asked a male reporter&#8230;&#8221; </p>
<p>Prabhupāda: (chuckles) That is fact. She is prostitute, that&#8217;s all. If you classify, then she is prostitute. (laughter) That&#8217;s all. There is no other way. </p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: &#8221; &#8216;Is that,&#8217; asked a male reporter, &#8216;what is wrong with Mrs. Indira Gandhi?&#8217; The Swami hedged.&#8221; Then actually they made a mistake. &#8221; &#8216;I cannot say. I would be arrested.&#8217; &#8221; That was actually a misquote. (Prabhupāda laughs) </p>
<p>Brahmānanda: Well, it&#8217;s the idea, though. </p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: Yeah. &#8220;The Swami now lives in Los Angeles, and he trains his followers there. Their income is from sales of his books, magazines and incense. He says he has about ten thousand followers. &#8216;We do not have so many,&#8217; he said&#8230;&#8221; </p>
<p>Prabhupāda: The inner meaning is there: &#8220;I shall be arrested.&#8221; </p>
<p>Brahmānanda: Yes. (laughs) That shows what is the position. </p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes. </p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: &#8220;He said he has about ten thousand followers.&#8221; Quote: &#8221; &#8216;We do not have so many,&#8217; he said, &#8216;it is hard to find a first-class man.&#8217; &#8221; And then she says&#8230; </p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Therefore without first-class man, nobody can become my disciple. </p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: Then she says, &#8220;It&#8217;s a pity half the population are women.&#8221; </p>
<p>Prabhupāda: I didn&#8217;t say half the population&#8230; </p>
<p>Brahmānanda: That&#8217;s her comment. </p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: That&#8217;s what she said. In other words&#8230; </p>
<p>Brahmānanda: Her comment is that if you hadn&#8217;t&#8230; </p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: &#8230;that half of the people are disqualified already because they&#8217;re women. It&#8217;s not so bad. </p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, no, it is not bad. It is good. Now our policy should be that at Dallas we shall create first-class men, and we shall teach the girls two things. One thing is how to become chaste and faithful to their husband and how to cook nicely. If these two qualifications they have, I will take guarantee to get for them good husband. I&#8217;ll personally&#8230; Yes. These two qualifications required. She must learn how to prepare first-class foodstuff, and she must learn how to become chaste and faithful to the husband. Only these two qualification required. Then her life is successful. So try to do that. (Car doors open, walk begins) Ordinary education is sufficient, ABCD. This is all nonsense, so big, big, sound education and later on become a prostitute. What is this education? (laughter) To make them prostitute, it doesn&#8217;t require education. [break] Yesterday we saw in the television how these rascals are wasting time, talking nonsense. There was nothing, valuable talk. Foot&#8230; No, no, hand&#8230; What is that? Handprint? And the addicted murder? That was the case? [break] Within two weeks, two divorces. </p>
<p>Devotees: Yes. [break] </p>
<p>Prabhupāda: &#8230;in the Dallas there is no problem. Educate the girls how to become faithful, chaste wife and how to cook nicely. Let them learn varieties of cooking. Is very difficult? These two qualifications, apart from Kṛṣṇa consciousness, materially they should learn. There are many stories, Nala-Damayantī, then Pārvatī, Sītā, five chaste women in the history. They should read their life. And by fifteenth, sixteenth year they should be married. And if they are qualified, it will be not difficult to find out a nice husband. Here the boys, they do not want to marry because they are not very much inclined to marry unchaste wife. They know it, that &#8220;I shall marry a girl, she is unchaste.&#8221; What do you think? </p>
<p>Brahmānanda: Yes. </p>
<p>Prabhupāda: This is psychology. If woman is chaste, even though she is not very beautiful, she will be liked by the husband. So train them in that way: very chaste, faithful wife and knows how to cook very nicely. Other qualification, even they haven&#8217;t, that&#8217;s all right. And Kṛṣṇa consciousness is being trained up. Then there will be no difficulty. And boys should be first-class man. Then our Gurukula will be successful. What do you think? Am I right? </p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: Jaya. </p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Anything objectionable? </p>
<p>Satsvarūpa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you were saying that in our society the women shouldn&#8217;t cook privately for their husbands. </p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Huh? </p>
<p>Satsvarūpa: You were saying that everyone should take the Deity&#8217;s prasādam. But it sounds like the women are being trained to cook, so&#8230; </p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, no, no. No, no. The thing is that Deity or at home, she must be very first-class cook. That is wanted. That is according to convenience. If possible, they can take prasādam in the temple. If not possible, they must cook. But she must be first-class cook. That is wanted, either in the temple or outside. In India still, 80%, 90%, they are very happy in their family life, never mind one is poor or rich, because the wife knows these three things: to remain chaste and faithful to the husband, and she knows how to cook nicely. (pause) And women and men should live separately. That is also essential. Butter and fire must be kept apart. Otherwise the butter will melt. You cannot stop it. (pause) The drama was a drug-addicted boy killed some friend? </p>
<p>Brahmānanda: It was the sailor who was killed? </p>
<p>Prabhupāda: In that television? </p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: I came in late. </p>
<p>Brahmānanda: On the news? </p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, no, the television. The lawyers were trying to prove handprints and so many things. The subject matter was that a drug-addicted boy killed a friend. Hm? (pause) What is this, some stool? </p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: This? It appears to be a leaf of some kind. </p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Oh, leaf. </p>
<p>Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in a purport in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam you say that even fifty years ago in India the householders had separate apartments for the men and women. </p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Not apartment, quarter. </p>
<p>Devotee: Separate quarters in the apartment. And the husband would not see his wife during the day? </p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No. </p>
<p>Makhanlal: So is this the standard we should develop in our movement? </p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes, that is good. The example is the butter and fire should be kept separate as far as&#8230; Otherwise the butter will melt. Mātrā svasrā duhitrā vā SB 9.19.17 . The butter and&#8230;, means man and woman. A man is butter, and woman is fire. So this is restricted even the man happens to be father, brother or son. Mātrā svasrā duhitrā vā. People cannot think of sex impulse in the presence of daughter, mother or sister. But śāstra says &#8220;No. There is possibility.&#8221; Mātrā svasrā duhitrā vā na vivaktāsane vaset: &#8220;They should not be kept, should not sit together.&#8221; Then people may say, &#8220;This is impossible. Maybe some tenth-class rascal may be attracted.&#8221; So the next line says, &#8220;No,&#8221; vidvāṁśāpi karṣati, &#8220;it is not the question of tenth-class rascal; even first-class learned, he may be attracted.&#8221; Not to speak of tenth-class rascal, but first-class learned may be. Not may be. It is a&#8230; Balavān indriya-grāmo vidvāṁśāpi karṣati: &#8220;The senses are so strong that it can mislead even the most learned scholar.&#8221; </p>
<p>Jagadīśa: Lord Brahmā was attracted&#8230; </p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes, to his daughter. Just see. There is the example. Lord Śiva was attracted by the Mohinī-mūrti. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that &#8220;Even if I see a wooden woman, I become attracted.&#8221; (laughs) He is giving this from his&#8230;, to teach us that it is possible. So we shall go now? [break] (in car:) &#8230;takes my advice, then I can keep her on the post and she can do greatest, service to India immediately. Immediately whole public will be her support. </p>
<p>Brahmānanda: What would be your advice to her? </p>
<p>Prabhupāda: My first step will be to capture all the hoarders and distribute the grains free. Immediately public will be obliged to&#8230; There are immense food grains; they are simply hoarded. They are not selling without good price. This is going on. Immediately she can capture the public. And some of the hoarders should be hanged, yes, so that in future nobody will hoard. People are hungry. And she says she has got some program, garivi hatta (?), &#8220;Drive away the poverty.&#8221; This is the point. If she can supply all consumer goods for the time being free to the poor, then immediately the whole population will be after her. And the hoarders should be exemplary punished. Shoot them, that&#8217;s all. Then nobody will hoard. But to remain the dictator she requires spiritual knowledge. Otherwise it will be another disaster. If she wants to remain the dictator, then she must be a spiritual man. She must become a Vaiṣṇavī. (end)</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Vrajabhumi</title>
		<link>http://harekrishnawomen.wordpress.com/2008/07/04/we-have-met-the-enemy-and-he-is-us/#comment-419</link>
		<dc:creator>Vrajabhumi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 19:30:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://harekrishnawomen.wordpress.com/?p=44#comment-419</guid>
		<description>Prabhupadas grandchild you wrote

&lt;blockquote&gt;I appreciate the devotees here trying to intelectually analyze Srila Prabhupadas words for the benefit of humanity, but I feel that this thinking is being conducted in a pretty offensive mood towards Srila Prabhupada and that he didnt deserve to be treated like that especially wothout him present to explain his words and deeds so we could see the real motives and meanings behind them.

It seems that here only the seemingly negative quotes get analyzed but no positive quotes on the same subjects of which I have personally read and remember many manyin books, in conversations and in personal letters. 

On this blog we are left with just Srila Prabhupadas words out of context and deeds that might have been mistakes and us either with a positive or a negative attitude to interpret to our own liking.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I don&#039;t think you are correct when you say that quotes are being taken out of context. What context would change the meaning of &quot;black people should be slaves and they would be satisfied being slaves&quot;? What context would change the meaning of &quot;women are blunt headed, less intelligent, and cannot understand spiritual knowledge very well&quot;? What context will change &quot;women should not be educated otherwise they become prostitutes and harm society&quot;?

You are in denial of what Prabhupada believed and the impact of his teachings on people who accept his words as God&#039;s absolute perfect truth. Yamuna dasi like many other of her godsisters from ISKCON&#039;S early days who had Prabhupada&#039;s association, likes to tell everyone about their pastimes with Prabhupada and how Prabhupada treated them so nice. Usually though those pastimes occurred in the early days of ISKCON when he needed all hands on deck, regardless of their gender. 

We should remember the history of ISKCON. ISKCON started out without much real discrimination and without many rules or demands put on the followers. This was because Prabhupada needed as many people as he could keep in order to expand his movement. As ISKCON moved into it&#039;s second phase things changed. Very strict rules were enforced, more of the gaudiya tradition was introduced, women were no longer needed as much like they were in the early days because so many men had joined. When ISKCON was very small in size and numbers every devotee was used to fulfill whatever role needed to be done. When ISKCON membership grew to thousands of devotees, women were then pushed to the back and treated with contempt. Prabhupada by then had started to preach about all the &quot;bad qualities&quot; of women. ISKCON became a fanatic anti-women society where leaders would preach that grhastas were &quot;in maya&quot;, that women &quot;are maya personified&quot; etc. 

Prabhupada started out treating women nicely, but as ISKCON grew and he was no longer dependent on a small group of disciples, he started preaching very negatively about women. His followers soaked it all up as the perfect inerrant word of God. I hear now and then from these devotees from the early days of ISKCON who try and convince us that ISKCON somehow deviated from Prabhupada&#039;s wishes and vision concerning women. They are in denial. Prabhupada treated them like they were treated because they were a close knit group who Prabhupada depended on, they became his family, they became like his daughters. But ISKCON culture didn&#039;t all of a sudden turn into a sexist misogynist society after Prabhupada left, it began as soon as Prabhupada was no longer dependent on a small group of disciples, many of whom were women. Nor was it the fault of the devotees. The devotees didn&#039;t bring sexist misogynistic views into ISKCON. Prabhupada taught them to be sexist and misogynistic. 

As far as dwelling on the negative, well, it&#039;s a dirty job but someone has to do it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Prabhupadas grandchild you wrote</p>
<blockquote><p>I appreciate the devotees here trying to intelectually analyze Srila Prabhupadas words for the benefit of humanity, but I feel that this thinking is being conducted in a pretty offensive mood towards Srila Prabhupada and that he didnt deserve to be treated like that especially wothout him present to explain his words and deeds so we could see the real motives and meanings behind them.</p>
<p>It seems that here only the seemingly negative quotes get analyzed but no positive quotes on the same subjects of which I have personally read and remember many manyin books, in conversations and in personal letters. </p>
<p>On this blog we are left with just Srila Prabhupadas words out of context and deeds that might have been mistakes and us either with a positive or a negative attitude to interpret to our own liking.</p></blockquote>
<p>I don&#8217;t think you are correct when you say that quotes are being taken out of context. What context would change the meaning of &#8220;black people should be slaves and they would be satisfied being slaves&#8221;? What context would change the meaning of &#8220;women are blunt headed, less intelligent, and cannot understand spiritual knowledge very well&#8221;? What context will change &#8220;women should not be educated otherwise they become prostitutes and harm society&#8221;?</p>
<p>You are in denial of what Prabhupada believed and the impact of his teachings on people who accept his words as God&#8217;s absolute perfect truth. Yamuna dasi like many other of her godsisters from ISKCON&#8217;S early days who had Prabhupada&#8217;s association, likes to tell everyone about their pastimes with Prabhupada and how Prabhupada treated them so nice. Usually though those pastimes occurred in the early days of ISKCON when he needed all hands on deck, regardless of their gender. </p>
<p>We should remember the history of ISKCON. ISKCON started out without much real discrimination and without many rules or demands put on the followers. This was because Prabhupada needed as many people as he could keep in order to expand his movement. As ISKCON moved into it&#8217;s second phase things changed. Very strict rules were enforced, more of the gaudiya tradition was introduced, women were no longer needed as much like they were in the early days because so many men had joined. When ISKCON was very small in size and numbers every devotee was used to fulfill whatever role needed to be done. When ISKCON membership grew to thousands of devotees, women were then pushed to the back and treated with contempt. Prabhupada by then had started to preach about all the &#8220;bad qualities&#8221; of women. ISKCON became a fanatic anti-women society where leaders would preach that grhastas were &#8220;in maya&#8221;, that women &#8220;are maya personified&#8221; etc. </p>
<p>Prabhupada started out treating women nicely, but as ISKCON grew and he was no longer dependent on a small group of disciples, he started preaching very negatively about women. His followers soaked it all up as the perfect inerrant word of God. I hear now and then from these devotees from the early days of ISKCON who try and convince us that ISKCON somehow deviated from Prabhupada&#8217;s wishes and vision concerning women. They are in denial. Prabhupada treated them like they were treated because they were a close knit group who Prabhupada depended on, they became his family, they became like his daughters. But ISKCON culture didn&#8217;t all of a sudden turn into a sexist misogynist society after Prabhupada left, it began as soon as Prabhupada was no longer dependent on a small group of disciples, many of whom were women. Nor was it the fault of the devotees. The devotees didn&#8217;t bring sexist misogynistic views into ISKCON. Prabhupada taught them to be sexist and misogynistic. </p>
<p>As far as dwelling on the negative, well, it&#8217;s a dirty job but someone has to do it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Prabhupadas grandchild</title>
		<link>http://harekrishnawomen.wordpress.com/2008/07/04/we-have-met-the-enemy-and-he-is-us/#comment-417</link>
		<dc:creator>Prabhupadas grandchild</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 16:26:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://harekrishnawomen.wordpress.com/?p=44#comment-417</guid>
		<description>Dandavats devotees. 
This is my final post on this blog.
I appreciate the devotees here trying to intelectually analyze Srila Prabhupadas words for the benefit of humanity, but I feel that this thinking is being conducted in a pretty offensive mood towards Srila Prabhupada and that he didnt deserve to be treated like that especially wothout him present to explain his words and deeds so we could see the real motives and meanings behind them.

It seems that here only the seemingly negative quotes get analyzed but no positive quotes on the same subjects of which I have personally read and remember many many in books, in conversations and in personal letters. 

On this blog we are left with just Srila Prabhupadas words out of context and deeds that might have been mistakes and us either with a positive or a negative attitude to interpret to our own liking.

Why not look at it this way... here is an old man with so much compassion in his heart that at an advanced age and suffering a few heart attacks while traveling he comes to this horrible west (which after transcendental Vrindavana seems like hell to anyone with higher taste) just to give us something because he feels sorry for us, and doesnt go away after being faced with so many impediments. 
He is faced with a culture he has not much idea about, ways of society he is not accustomed to, attacked and robbed, but he wants to give Krishna sincerely... so Krishna arranges after a year of tribulation and perseverance for some followers to appear... and from then on it was learn on the spot and depend on Krishna how to lead and establish for Srila Prabhupada. He never said he was omniscient, he never said all his words were to be taken literally and he never said that his books were socially faultless. What do you expect in such little time at such age? I think whatever happened is a wonderful miracle and that Srila Prabhupadas possible mistakes should be overlooked and only positive things should be mentioned. 

Its not that God tells the guru all the time what to do. Guru has his own mind and ideas how to serve the Lord and the Lord accepts the service and gives advice when He wants to. 
Its an exchange of service and offerings between individuals on the transcendental level and sometimes devotees do make some mistakes in their offerings...this is the material world and no effort is without fault. But what Krishna looks at is the mood of the offering. And Srila Prabhupada never discriminated between any living entity in distributing the mercy of Lord Nityananda and his own mercy. Im pretty sure Krishna accepted his humble offering. 

With your blessings Ill just try to stick to serving Srila Prabhupadas lotus feet because without his followers saving me I would have been either dead or highly sinful by now.   

This is all I have time for.. Im sorry I couldnt provide more quotes or references, Im very busy these days.


Finally, I post Yamuna Devi&#039;s address to the GBC, year 2000... you may notice how well she avoided offending any vaishnava in her speech and how she made her point only pointing to the positive in all parties... 
Rukmini Devi and Yamuna Devi are not blind fools, they are both very intelligent accomplished women who are exceptional vaishnavis. 
Especially Yamuna Devi spent so much time with Srila Prabhupada. Do you think she would have stayed with him if she didnt see only the highest qualities in him? Only fools will tolerate abuse in the guise of spirituality and neither of those women are fools or into being abused because they know the psychology of abuse very well. 
I am not a fool either. I ve had my time to step aside mentally from ISKCON and really think about it and study it in depth to see whether my enthusiasm was sentimental or based on philosophy and genuine examples to follow. With my limited capacity I have noticed some superficial things to be corrected in our movement which were on the social level, but that is always there, its kali yuga and all material interactions are hard and full of mistakes. 
Especially we need to focus more on correct educational methods for new devotees not to suffocate their talents and personalities. But the spiritual level is there and expanding blissfully if one tries to hear and chant nicely.

Thank you very much for hearing my 2 cents.



Srila Prabhupada&#039;s Transcendental Sweetness and Beauty

Presentation by Yamuna Devi Dasi 

What a week of Vaisnava sadhu-satsanga this has been! I leave the richer, having exchanged with my family members, old and new, Godbrothers, Godsisters, nephews and nieces. While I feel most unqualified to speak to you today, I am honoured and privileged to join my Godsisters in voicing my concerns as a woman in ISKCON.

As the GBC body, all of you are responsible for establishing Srila Prabhupada&#039;s legacy, which, in these difficult and turbulent times, is at stake. One realm of that legacy - the rapport Srila Prabhupada established with his Vaisnavi disciples - is the topic of our discussion today, because over the years since his disappearance it has been largely forgotten. Perhaps my personal service and association with him, along with his later guidance and instructions, offer some insights in this area.

As a strong and independent young woman I met Srila Prabhupada in 1966 and took initiation in 1967. Had Srila Prabhupada demanded conformity to orthodox roles for women as a condition of surrender, I, along with many of my Godsisters, would probably not have joined ISKCON. That he did not is testament to his spiritual vision. He lovingly encouraged and engaged us in the service of the sankirtana movement, and he consistently revealed himself to be panditah sama-darsinah - equal to all.

In both men and women, Srila Prabhupada observed our propensities and expertly dovetailed them in his preaching mission. For many years, in different countries and circumstances, I had the good fortune to render personal service to him. He trained me, urged me to accept more and more responsibility, and regularly asked me to lead kirtanas, give classes, arrange programmes, manage departments, provide comforts for visiting devotees, meet with leaders, and actively promulgate Krsna consciousness. In ISKCON India, where previously no women were allowed, he sent me to various temples to learn cooking and Deity worship, and he repeatedly asked me to train others in the same.

It would take much longer than the limited time I have here to give you a glimpse into the numerous exchanges that illustrate Srila Prabhupada&#039;s demeanour and mood. However, one such exchange is what I call the Canakya Pandita episodes. I was present on four occasions when Srila Prabhupada repeated the Canakya adage: &#039;Never trust a woman or a politician.&#039; On each occasion Srila Prabhupada looked me in the eye to see my response. On the last occasion, in Bombay in 1973, he quoted the saying, heartily laughing in front of a small group of men. Then he said: &#039;What do you think, Yamuna?&#039; Immediately I retorted: &#039;Of course it is true, Srila Prabhupada,&#039; whereupon he became grave, looked at me with great feeling, and said, &#039;But you are not a woman, you are a Vaisnava.&#039;

Another series of exchanges centred on leading kirtana. Srila Prabhupada often had me lead the first kirtana before he spoke at a programme, whether in front of twenty people or ten thousand people. There were occasions when I felt uncomfortable with this. At the Jaipur pandal at Radha Govinda temple, I refused to lead kirtana. Srila Prabhupada called me over and said, &#039;Lead kirtana.&#039; I said, &#039;I can&#039;t. My throat hurts.&#039; He said, &#039;No. Lead kirtana.&#039; So, croaking like a frog, I led kirtana.

In late 1974, not long after I had left my householder asrama, Srila Prabhupada pronounced it &#039;good that you have left your husband&#039;, and encouraged me to become a &#039;sannyasini&#039;. Although I was not in the traditional role of being protected by my father, husband or son, in both his personal darsanas and written instructions, Srila Prabhupada offered me unfettered encouragement and astonished me with unexpected answers to my questions.

After settling in Oregon with my Godsister Dinatarine, Srila Prabhupada, while pronouncing us &#039;independent&#039; to a concerned Godbrother, at the same time twice rebuked us when we approached him to leave. &#039;You westerners are so restless,&#039; he admonished. &#039;Why can&#039;t you remain in the same place? Stay where you are.&#039; We questioned, &#039;But Srila Prabhupada, they are saying that if we aren&#039;t in ISKCON, we lose your blessings and cannot make advancement.&#039; Prabhupada replied, &#039;ISKCON is where you are chanting the holy name - that is ISKCON.&#039; We rejoined: &#039;They are saying we don&#039;t have any association here and are therefore in maya.&#039; He replied: &#039;Association can be two or two hundred. If you are two and compatible, you can become perfect in Krsna consciousness. If you are 200 and are not, then no one will make advancement.&#039;

To conclude, Srila Prabhupada trained me to be concerned about his movement, and at this time I am deeply concerned. Now more than ever, it is time to revive and imbibe Srila Prabhupada&#039;s mood with his disciples. If we neglect this, an aspect of his greatness will remain unknown to future generations.

I appeal to the GBC that along with the laudable projects you are managing and those you are contemplating - especially the magnificent temple that will arise here in Sridhama Mayapura - consider that the behaviour of the ISKCON devotees who participate in these projects must also be magnificent. Any other behaviour will make the projects less than worthy of Srila Prabhupada&#039;s name. This grave responsibility falls on you. In other words, let us instil in every person who comes into contact with Srila Prabhupada&#039;s movement the healthy spiritual relationships that he had with his followers - his mood of encouragement, protection and kindness.

The closer we come to individually appreciating and honouring Srila Prabhupada&#039;s personal dealings with his disciples, the closer we will come to his sense of completeness in Krsna consciousness, to his joyfulness, to his transcendentally attractive nature.

With great care, our service is to create a devotional environment where men, women and children can thrive in Krsna consciousness, rendering service according to their desire and inclination. Our service is to empower rather than inhibit the service propensity in others.

Finally, let us search our intelligence and hearts for ways to help the women who are sincerely looking for spiritual life. Without properly nurturing them, we as a society have no future. Women in Krsna consciousness are an intricate, essential part of Srila Prabhupada&#039;s legacy. In our effort to move forward, let us not put Srila Prabhupada&#039;s example behind us, but in front of us - our divine beacon - to guide us together towards the lotus feet of Sri Sri Gaura-Nitai and Sri Sri Radha-Krsna.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dandavats devotees.<br />
This is my final post on this blog.<br />
I appreciate the devotees here trying to intelectually analyze Srila Prabhupadas words for the benefit of humanity, but I feel that this thinking is being conducted in a pretty offensive mood towards Srila Prabhupada and that he didnt deserve to be treated like that especially wothout him present to explain his words and deeds so we could see the real motives and meanings behind them.</p>
<p>It seems that here only the seemingly negative quotes get analyzed but no positive quotes on the same subjects of which I have personally read and remember many many in books, in conversations and in personal letters. </p>
<p>On this blog we are left with just Srila Prabhupadas words out of context and deeds that might have been mistakes and us either with a positive or a negative attitude to interpret to our own liking.</p>
<p>Why not look at it this way&#8230; here is an old man with so much compassion in his heart that at an advanced age and suffering a few heart attacks while traveling he comes to this horrible west (which after transcendental Vrindavana seems like hell to anyone with higher taste) just to give us something because he feels sorry for us, and doesnt go away after being faced with so many impediments.<br />
He is faced with a culture he has not much idea about, ways of society he is not accustomed to, attacked and robbed, but he wants to give Krishna sincerely&#8230; so Krishna arranges after a year of tribulation and perseverance for some followers to appear&#8230; and from then on it was learn on the spot and depend on Krishna how to lead and establish for Srila Prabhupada. He never said he was omniscient, he never said all his words were to be taken literally and he never said that his books were socially faultless. What do you expect in such little time at such age? I think whatever happened is a wonderful miracle and that Srila Prabhupadas possible mistakes should be overlooked and only positive things should be mentioned. </p>
<p>Its not that God tells the guru all the time what to do. Guru has his own mind and ideas how to serve the Lord and the Lord accepts the service and gives advice when He wants to.<br />
Its an exchange of service and offerings between individuals on the transcendental level and sometimes devotees do make some mistakes in their offerings&#8230;this is the material world and no effort is without fault. But what Krishna looks at is the mood of the offering. And Srila Prabhupada never discriminated between any living entity in distributing the mercy of Lord Nityananda and his own mercy. Im pretty sure Krishna accepted his humble offering. </p>
<p>With your blessings Ill just try to stick to serving Srila Prabhupadas lotus feet because without his followers saving me I would have been either dead or highly sinful by now.   </p>
<p>This is all I have time for.. Im sorry I couldnt provide more quotes or references, Im very busy these days.</p>
<p>Finally, I post Yamuna Devi&#8217;s address to the GBC, year 2000&#8230; you may notice how well she avoided offending any vaishnava in her speech and how she made her point only pointing to the positive in all parties&#8230;<br />
Rukmini Devi and Yamuna Devi are not blind fools, they are both very intelligent accomplished women who are exceptional vaishnavis.<br />
Especially Yamuna Devi spent so much time with Srila Prabhupada. Do you think she would have stayed with him if she didnt see only the highest qualities in him? Only fools will tolerate abuse in the guise of spirituality and neither of those women are fools or into being abused because they know the psychology of abuse very well.<br />
I am not a fool either. I ve had my time to step aside mentally from ISKCON and really think about it and study it in depth to see whether my enthusiasm was sentimental or based on philosophy and genuine examples to follow. With my limited capacity I have noticed some superficial things to be corrected in our movement which were on the social level, but that is always there, its kali yuga and all material interactions are hard and full of mistakes.<br />
Especially we need to focus more on correct educational methods for new devotees not to suffocate their talents and personalities. But the spiritual level is there and expanding blissfully if one tries to hear and chant nicely.</p>
<p>Thank you very much for hearing my 2 cents.</p>
<p>Srila Prabhupada&#8217;s Transcendental Sweetness and Beauty</p>
<p>Presentation by Yamuna Devi Dasi </p>
<p>What a week of Vaisnava sadhu-satsanga this has been! I leave the richer, having exchanged with my family members, old and new, Godbrothers, Godsisters, nephews and nieces. While I feel most unqualified to speak to you today, I am honoured and privileged to join my Godsisters in voicing my concerns as a woman in ISKCON.</p>
<p>As the GBC body, all of you are responsible for establishing Srila Prabhupada&#8217;s legacy, which, in these difficult and turbulent times, is at stake. One realm of that legacy &#8211; the rapport Srila Prabhupada established with his Vaisnavi disciples &#8211; is the topic of our discussion today, because over the years since his disappearance it has been largely forgotten. Perhaps my personal service and association with him, along with his later guidance and instructions, offer some insights in this area.</p>
<p>As a strong and independent young woman I met Srila Prabhupada in 1966 and took initiation in 1967. Had Srila Prabhupada demanded conformity to orthodox roles for women as a condition of surrender, I, along with many of my Godsisters, would probably not have joined ISKCON. That he did not is testament to his spiritual vision. He lovingly encouraged and engaged us in the service of the sankirtana movement, and he consistently revealed himself to be panditah sama-darsinah &#8211; equal to all.</p>
<p>In both men and women, Srila Prabhupada observed our propensities and expertly dovetailed them in his preaching mission. For many years, in different countries and circumstances, I had the good fortune to render personal service to him. He trained me, urged me to accept more and more responsibility, and regularly asked me to lead kirtanas, give classes, arrange programmes, manage departments, provide comforts for visiting devotees, meet with leaders, and actively promulgate Krsna consciousness. In ISKCON India, where previously no women were allowed, he sent me to various temples to learn cooking and Deity worship, and he repeatedly asked me to train others in the same.</p>
<p>It would take much longer than the limited time I have here to give you a glimpse into the numerous exchanges that illustrate Srila Prabhupada&#8217;s demeanour and mood. However, one such exchange is what I call the Canakya Pandita episodes. I was present on four occasions when Srila Prabhupada repeated the Canakya adage: &#8216;Never trust a woman or a politician.&#8217; On each occasion Srila Prabhupada looked me in the eye to see my response. On the last occasion, in Bombay in 1973, he quoted the saying, heartily laughing in front of a small group of men. Then he said: &#8216;What do you think, Yamuna?&#8217; Immediately I retorted: &#8216;Of course it is true, Srila Prabhupada,&#8217; whereupon he became grave, looked at me with great feeling, and said, &#8216;But you are not a woman, you are a Vaisnava.&#8217;</p>
<p>Another series of exchanges centred on leading kirtana. Srila Prabhupada often had me lead the first kirtana before he spoke at a programme, whether in front of twenty people or ten thousand people. There were occasions when I felt uncomfortable with this. At the Jaipur pandal at Radha Govinda temple, I refused to lead kirtana. Srila Prabhupada called me over and said, &#8216;Lead kirtana.&#8217; I said, &#8216;I can&#8217;t. My throat hurts.&#8217; He said, &#8216;No. Lead kirtana.&#8217; So, croaking like a frog, I led kirtana.</p>
<p>In late 1974, not long after I had left my householder asrama, Srila Prabhupada pronounced it &#8216;good that you have left your husband&#8217;, and encouraged me to become a &#8217;sannyasini&#8217;. Although I was not in the traditional role of being protected by my father, husband or son, in both his personal darsanas and written instructions, Srila Prabhupada offered me unfettered encouragement and astonished me with unexpected answers to my questions.</p>
<p>After settling in Oregon with my Godsister Dinatarine, Srila Prabhupada, while pronouncing us &#8216;independent&#8217; to a concerned Godbrother, at the same time twice rebuked us when we approached him to leave. &#8216;You westerners are so restless,&#8217; he admonished. &#8216;Why can&#8217;t you remain in the same place? Stay where you are.&#8217; We questioned, &#8216;But Srila Prabhupada, they are saying that if we aren&#8217;t in ISKCON, we lose your blessings and cannot make advancement.&#8217; Prabhupada replied, &#8216;ISKCON is where you are chanting the holy name &#8211; that is ISKCON.&#8217; We rejoined: &#8216;They are saying we don&#8217;t have any association here and are therefore in maya.&#8217; He replied: &#8216;Association can be two or two hundred. If you are two and compatible, you can become perfect in Krsna consciousness. If you are 200 and are not, then no one will make advancement.&#8217;</p>
<p>To conclude, Srila Prabhupada trained me to be concerned about his movement, and at this time I am deeply concerned. Now more than ever, it is time to revive and imbibe Srila Prabhupada&#8217;s mood with his disciples. If we neglect this, an aspect of his greatness will remain unknown to future generations.</p>
<p>I appeal to the GBC that along with the laudable projects you are managing and those you are contemplating &#8211; especially the magnificent temple that will arise here in Sridhama Mayapura &#8211; consider that the behaviour of the ISKCON devotees who participate in these projects must also be magnificent. Any other behaviour will make the projects less than worthy of Srila Prabhupada&#8217;s name. This grave responsibility falls on you. In other words, let us instil in every person who comes into contact with Srila Prabhupada&#8217;s movement the healthy spiritual relationships that he had with his followers &#8211; his mood of encouragement, protection and kindness.</p>
<p>The closer we come to individually appreciating and honouring Srila Prabhupada&#8217;s personal dealings with his disciples, the closer we will come to his sense of completeness in Krsna consciousness, to his joyfulness, to his transcendentally attractive nature.</p>
<p>With great care, our service is to create a devotional environment where men, women and children can thrive in Krsna consciousness, rendering service according to their desire and inclination. Our service is to empower rather than inhibit the service propensity in others.</p>
<p>Finally, let us search our intelligence and hearts for ways to help the women who are sincerely looking for spiritual life. Without properly nurturing them, we as a society have no future. Women in Krsna consciousness are an intricate, essential part of Srila Prabhupada&#8217;s legacy. In our effort to move forward, let us not put Srila Prabhupada&#8217;s example behind us, but in front of us &#8211; our divine beacon &#8211; to guide us together towards the lotus feet of Sri Sri Gaura-Nitai and Sri Sri Radha-Krsna.</p>
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		<title>By: Servant Of Krishna</title>
		<link>http://harekrishnawomen.wordpress.com/2008/07/04/we-have-met-the-enemy-and-he-is-us/#comment-415</link>
		<dc:creator>Servant Of Krishna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 15:24:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://harekrishnawomen.wordpress.com/?p=44#comment-415</guid>
		<description>Vrajabhumi:  You state, &quot;A bona fide spiritual master is no different then anyone else except he or she communes directly with God, speaks directly with God, relates directly with God in his/her eternal bhava and rasa with God.&quot;

Someone who is on the level of &quot;communing directly with God&quot; would not say that women enjoy being raped and that black people should be kept as slaves, and would not order that children who were little more than babies be sent away from their families.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vrajabhumi:  You state, &#8220;A bona fide spiritual master is no different then anyone else except he or she communes directly with God, speaks directly with God, relates directly with God in his/her eternal bhava and rasa with God.&#8221;</p>
<p>Someone who is on the level of &#8220;communing directly with God&#8221; would not say that women enjoy being raped and that black people should be kept as slaves, and would not order that children who were little more than babies be sent away from their families.</p>
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