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This is a response to a comment from Corey Cananza aka Caitanya das to the In the year 2525 post.
He wrote:
Demons flock together. Maybe Swami Iconoclast and Vrajabhumi should have a child and see what kind of maha-raksasa is produced.
Why am I demon? Let’s break this down so that we can see how you are a lunatic, alrighty?
Have I preached to people that unless you surrender to me by becoming my menial servant while asking for nothing in return except the chance to be my eternal menial servant — that you will not become “Krishna conscious” and therefore you will suffer the many miseries of this world life after life? Probably for millions of lives, and possibly for many of those in lower species like worms in stool, or stool eating hogs and dogs?
Prabhupada did.
Have I taught people that God condones extreme abusive racism because I am an abusive racist who wants to enslave an entire race of people — and whatever I teach is God’s holy truth?
Prabhupada did.
Have I taught people that it is God’s wish for men to treat girls and women like chattel, and to keep them under their thumb at all times throughout their entire lives, and to keep them uneducated; otherwise they will all become prostitutes and destroy society?
Prabhupada did.
Did I tell my followers to start a bunch of private boarding schools where they must send their 4-5 year old children to live — and than demand that nothing be taught outside of my books? And then did I neglect to make sure that there were proper guidelines for the hiring of qualified teachers so that the schools wouldn’t turn into prison like environments where children constantly lived in fear and misery due to the abuse of perverts, predators, and violent psychopaths masquerading as God’s holy empowered representatives?
Prabhupada did.
Do I tell my followers that the reason they are in this world is because they want to enjoy and that God punishes people if they desire to enjoy? That God only tolerates people who want nothing but to be his submissive servants with no desire for their own personal enjoyment? That God is therefore a demented sadistic Satanic being?
Prabhupada did.
Do I tell people that Gaudiya Vaishnava theology advises us to stay away from raganuga bhakti, i.e. trying to see ourselves as intimate associates of Radha Krishna — unless we are liberated pure devotees otherwise we are demons and sahajiyas? Even though the teachings of Sri Chaitanya, Rupa Goswami, Jiva Goswami, etc, all teach us that the raganuga path is vastly superior to the vaidhi path, and that the only qualification for taking it up is the eagerness to do so?
Prabhupada did.
Yet, you Corey Caitanya das, accuse me of being a demon because I expose the truth about Prabhupada? Because I expose the delusional lie of your arrogant insolent belief in the divine superiority of Prabhupada and his followers over everyone else on the planet? Because I expose the lie of the “benediction moon of Prabhupada’s saving grace on humanity?” Because I expose the sham of wasting your life on trying to preach to the world the glories of Prabhupada?
All I can say to fools like you is: Who are the ones trying to deceive and mentally enslave people to become the slaves of a false prophet with his Satanic version of God?
How can Swami Iconoclast be called a demon when all he has done is to relentlessly promote the infallibility of Srila Prabhupada? But Swami holds no grudges, Caitanya das. Swami understands and forgives.
This is getting utterly absurd. You sound more like an atheist than a theist. I wouldn’t be surprised if you are some kind of atheist that is posing as a devotee, merely to mislead innocent devotees. Anyway, you will be held accountable for your blasphemy of Srila Prabhupada.
Now, if you want to blasphemy ISKCON’s gurus, that’s another thing. I’m with you on that boat.
With regards,
Caitanya dasa
http://www.harekrishnadiary.blogspot.com
Look, I know plenty of atheists who are also against feminism. So you might as well give up your arrogant bitchy bull****. You’re a white woman, aren’t you? Well, here’s some inside information for you: No man of decency will be attracted to such bitchy feminist sluts as you.
I even heard Guru Prasad Swami once say: “No one wants to marry these American women, they are completely useless. Rather, they want to marry spanish or indian/asian girls. But no one wants to marry these white American girls anymore”.
Also, I found this same kind of sentiment expressed by a karmi. Here is his blog:
All I’m trying to say is, the more you white women act like complete feminist bitches, the less men are going to be attracted to you, and thus you are going to live a very lonely life. But, those men who ARE intelligent, generally will avoid white women like the plague, and go instead for truly attractive women, such as mexican, asian, indian, black, etc.
White women are the devil.
From Caitanya Das’s blog, it is clear that he does not have good understanding of scriptures. He is not spiritually advanced. Actually, it appears to be mentally sound.
It is waste of your time to respond to him.
i meant he appears to be mentally unsound.
Caitanya das
It’s funny how people can lose their common sense when they become brainwashed by master manipulators. If we were to put up our two respective opinions about what Prabhupada taught to the general public, what do you think will be the outcome? What percentage would see what I have said as blasphemy, and what percentage would see what you say as demented? I’m guessing you might get the white supremacist vote and a percentage of the Hare Krishna vote, but I would get everyone else.
Let’s face reality here. You are unable to deal with what I have said — so what do you do? You make hilariously childish comments about “American women” and tell me I’m going to hell for being a blasphemer! Of course everything I said is simply the truth and therefore the only thing a fantard like you can do is be teh ghey. Lulz!
p.s. I guess American women are reviled by men who want to marry their mommies. They want a maid/cook/someone to clean their butt. American women want real men, not whiny little brats/ghey cult Prabhupadafag fantards looking for their blankey
“I wouldn’t be surprised if you are some kind of atheist that is posing as a devotee, merely to mislead innocent devotees.”
I confess to being “misled.” But it’s not Vrajabhumi who misled me. It was Prabhupada himself. I just read his words and I get sick to my stomach.
My question is, how can you refute what so very obviously came out of Prabhupada’s mouth? How can you defend such arrogant, hateful “philosohy?”
weareneveralone:
You say the words that came out of Prabhupada’s mouth are arrogant and hateful. But they are not. An infallible and perfect person like Prabhupada may sound arrogant, but that is because he was perfect and thus we mere mortals get envious of his perfection. As for “hateful”, Srila Prabhupada traveled all over the world and worked tirelessly to preach his infallible teachings. That cannot have been motivated by hate. It was motivated by a love of humanity and his only wish was that the whole world would adopt Krishna Consciousness and become a huge Vaishnava theocracy with the caste system. That is not hate. That is love because a a huge Vaishnava theocracy with the caste system can only be good for human beings.
“So let there be one common scripture for the whole world–Bhagavad-gita. And let there be one God only for the whole world–Sri Krsna. And one mantra only–Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare. And let there be one work only–the service of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.” – From the introduction to Bhagavad Gita As It Is by His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
A form of Krishna has “transitioned” today. Can we get a video?
Haha, you American women want real men? But it is your very nature to try to castrate the men, and to want to take away everything which truly makes them a man. Please understand, I am not the only one that feels like this. I know many nondevotee men who are also completely fed up with the arrogant attitude of the white women of America, who seem to feel like they are entitled to something, as if they are “daddy’s little princess”. Regardless, the feminism which you advocate is the very thing which has emasculated the modern man. And then you complain that there are no real men left? Insanity!
An interesting news article that makes these points very lucidly can be found here:
In Scandinavia’s equality central, an antifeminist backlash?
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/06/travel/06iht-feminists.html?_r=1
With regards,
Corey Cananza
http://www.harekrishnadiary.blogspot.com
Oh, and GM, no matter what the content of his blog is, he doesn’t allow comments there. So when he writes this, for example…
“I’m for respect for human dignity, for integrity, for due process, for the exercise of reason, for discussion rather than coercion, for independent thoughtfulness, for inter-dependent cooperation. I’m for collegiality. I’m for the truth rather than the party line. I’m for cooperating with rational authorities. I’m for simple living and high thinking. I’m for competence, wisdom, and so on. I’m for leadership that facilitates people rather than seeks to control them.”
I can’t comment on his blog to tell him I don’t think he is “pro” human dignity, wisdom, thoughtfulness, etc. From the comments he has left here, he seems to harbor a great deal of animosity toward thoughtful people who happen to disagree with him. Sad, really.
Now west is also showing fight of believes in name of Krishna religion(this site is an example). This fight of believes in name of Krishna religion has been present in India since hundreds of years.
Sankara bought something, the Ramanuja got something else, then someone else..
All these creates different beliefs. In all these believes, Hare Krishna is to be accepted as supreme most.
So continue your fight. Don’t worry- as you are all chanting “Hare Krishna” and are cleansed of all your sins because of this chanting..
Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare/ Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare.
Om Angenayaya namah!!
Prabhupada Sucks!!
Caitanya das
You can try to divert the discussion towards your own sexism and misogyny, but no one cares about it since you’re just some random retard without any influence. Instead I will try to bring it back to the lecture at hand as an experiment so we can see if you — an average ISKCON trained idiot — can be honest with your support of Prabhupada:
Do you agree with Prabhupada’s teaching that women, not just the women without self-esteem who don’t understand that being a maid/mommy to immature men is not the best they can be in and expect in a relationship, that they should be denied an education except for reading and writing? That they should remain “under the control” of men all of their lives? That they should “never be given independence” otherwise they will become prostitutes and destroy society? Do you believe women are alright with being raped? Do you believe that girls will love the first boy or man who has sex with her — for the rest of her life — because she will be so grateful?
How about black people and slavery? Do you agree with Prabhupada?
How about Jews being nothing but money grubbing materialists? Do you agree with Prabhupada?
How about this statement from Prabhupada, do you agree with it?
Answer yes or no. Until you answer if you go off this topic your comments will no longer be posted (^_^)
Caitanya das:
Swami is curious. How come you don’t allow comments on your blog but feel free to benefit from the comment function of this blog?
Anyway, Swami is on your side. Let us educate women about what their rightful role in life is – to cook sumptuous prasadam, sew and obey their husbands. Let us make women aware that because of their inferior brain size, they can never be as smart as us men. They can never be scientists, mathematicians and philosophers. Let us continue to promote the infallible teachings of Srila Prabhupada which is not dependent on mundane concepts like logic and consistency.
O my god, its so wrong to say the things that Caitanya Das is saying here. I am in shock. He just insulted terribly all black, spanish, and asian women, as well as white american men. On reading again, actually, come to think of it, he just managed to insult the entire human race!! The guy is a lunatic.
You see, this type of anartha is always there, lurking in the shadows of certain peoples’ hearts, and then when someone in a pivotal position makes the wrong statement, at the wrong time (which is any time), bling, its like it sets these lunatics off. Prabhupada made terrible mistakes Caitanya Das, just accept that. Prabhupada put his foot in his mouth, should never have said those things. He is not the one being insulted. Its the other way around, he insulted and actually threatened so many people that his words now HAVE to be rectified by followers. That is your service to him. Apologize and make it right. For him.
Geez…
Yes Swami Iconoclast, the words from Prabhupada are arrogant and hateful. Just read the quotations above. They all came out of Prabhupada’s mouth. I understand that he wanted to spread Krishna consciousness around the world, and that’s admirable. But spreading hatred of women and blacks, among many other things/people, is not admirable. Prabhupada/ISKCON advocates a modern caste system based on the outer dress of the body. That’s such a paradox and frankly, it’s hypocritical. On the one hand, we have the teaching that we are not our bodies. And on the other hand, we have Prabhupada saying that black people ought to be enslaved and that women are only good for cooking and cleaning. All this was just a way for P. to gain control over followers, and it continues today. I’ll never understand why a woman or a black person would ever want to be affiliated with ISKCON. It’s not love, it’s neanderthal sectarian ideology.
Caitanya das sent in some more even crazier comments, but as I promised him — nothing of his will be allowed until he answers yes or no to the above questions.
Good idea. I would like just ONE of these people who defend Prabhupada to the letter and who consider him to be infallible to answer these questions. To very specifically address the quotations in which Prabhupada insults women and people of color. The quotes in which he states that all Jews want is money, and on and on. I think he and people like him are embarrassed by the hatred that Prabhupada spewed from his mouth. Maybe they really have no response other than to be just as insulting and hateful as their master. It seems rational, intelligent discussion is not possible without insults and nasty names being hurled at those who dare to question. I’d love for even one thoughtful, level headed, rational pro-Prabhupada/ISKCON man to step forward and tell us why we should not be offended by many of the things his infallible master said. For that matter, I’d love to see one thoughtful, rational, level headed woman to come forward and do the same thing.
Why not just answer the questions directly? Please.
Dear Weareneveralone,
Don’t be bummed out by Swami Iconoclast’s posts, because they are all tongue-in-cheek and specifically intended to highlight the bizarre and irrational “reasoning” of ACBS’ fundamentalist followers. And I think the very fact that some people actually take him seriously illustrates the intended point quite effectively ; )
I think we can honestly say that ACBS said and did some really bad things, and we can honestly discuss the damage these things have done.
But I think Anonymous’ comment above that “Prabhupada s%^&*” is way out of line. It’s not necessary to speak like that and it brings the entire discussion, and any valid points made in it, down to a really base level.
Swami has written an eloquent defense of Caitanya das:
http://infallibleprabhupada.blogspot.com/2009/06/caitanya-das-voice-of-reason.html
If you are reading this, Caitanya das: Swami is on your side!
I agree, servant. People on both sides need to stop with the name callling and cursing.
Swami Iconclast, I apologize. I knew of the tone of your blog and I knew about the sarcasm, etc. I just didn’t think when I referred to you in my reply. I guess I was caught up in emotion. Anyway, I do appreciate your blog, and my anger and astonishment is directed toward those who believe seriously that Prabhupada and the things that came from his mouth and pen were (are) infallible. Again, I’m sorry for my gaffe. Keep writing!
Guys,
Based on all his writings, don’t you all understand that Corey is just an immature young lad with unstable mentality? I am convinced that he has some split personality issues. He is growing-up, so please don’t write paragraphs after paragraphs based on his childish comments.
Corey aka Caitanya das
just made a really funny post on his blog about me
Apparently I have “white wimmin disease”, he said:
“Gimme a darkey anyday over them thar no good white wimmin folk. The darkeys don’t care how ugly or stoopid I is, they really just want to have a chance to worship their menfolk. After all, ain’t that what wimmin folk is spozed to do fer me? White wimmin are devils I say, devils! No one likes white wimmin, they is all gone to die alone”
Well, Corey das, I begs to differ. While white women may not enjoy
playing with doodoo and peepee like you do — while claiming it’s the height of civilized living
— that doesn’t mean they are entirely useless, in fact some people just love em:
Haribol,
Ugh, reading all these comments reminds me of the story of Daksa and Lord Siva, countercursing etc. Good chapters in the Bhagavatam.
Your ever well-wisher,
James Edward Higgins IV AKA Narayan
Hello Vraja
Hare krsna!
you posted:
“Do I tell people that Gaudiya Vaishnava theology advises us to stay away from raganuga bhakti, i.e. trying to see ourselves as intimate associates of Radha Krishna — unless we are liberated pure devotees otherwise we are demons and sahajiyas? Even though the teachings of Sri Chaitanya, Rupa Goswami, Jiva Goswami, etc, all teach us that the raganuga path is vastly superior to the vaidhi path, and that the only qualification for taking it up is the eagerness to do so?
Prabhupada did.”
“Srila Prabhupada: The siddha-pranali process is followed by a class of men who are not very authorized and who have manufactured their own way of devotional service. They imagine they have become associates of the Lord simply by thinking of themselves like that.”
Vraja what is he difference between Raganuga and the siddha-pranali process because they seems the same reading the above quotes.
we have a direct and intimate relationship with Krsna so what is the problem thinking like that? in every stage we are the children of Krsna.
someone would say you are from tatastha sakti so you don’t have a relationship with him but this is refuted in jiva dharma where it is said that Krsna weeping come with us as paramatma and when we are ready here, bored with this world He will make the arrangements for going back to the spiritual world. (i.e no matter where is our origin, the relationship is there, like a little child who don’t know his parents very well due to his innocence (santa rasa?) but their parents know his baby very well and love him)
Vraja where this “far away for having a relationship with Krsna” started? with Srila Prabhupada or before him?. I think that this is the core issue with gaudiya vaishnavism today.
Siddha-pranali is a specific type of initiation ritual. Raganuga is a broad term for a type of bhakti.